As I approach my 32nd wedding anniversary this week, I want to share with you all how my life has been impacted by my relationship with my husband. It’s hard to narrow it down, but there are three major lessons that I’ve learned and ways that I’ve grown since becoming a bride at 24 years old. Little did I know back then that we would become a family of seven and navigate three continents as home base, but through all of that, I’ve learned that there is always hope, forgiveness, and a way through the wilderness.
As I approach my 32nd wedding anniversary this week, I want to share with you all how my life has been impacted by my relationship with my husband. It’s hard to narrow it down, but there are three major lessons that I’ve learned and ways that I’ve grown since becoming a bride at 24 years old. Little did I know back then that we would become a family of seven and navigate three continents as home base, but through all of that, I’ve learned that there is always hope, forgiveness, and a way through the wilderness.
Most of the time, love is not a feeling, but rather a verb. It shows up in the support, the acts of service, and the acceptance of your dark moments. Throughout the past 32 years, I’ve realized that we are both innocent, and we are both guilty. It takes two people to create the conditions where someone gets hurt. It also takes two people to confront those patterns and course correct.
As our family has grown, it’s also become clear that our relationship is not just about us. We need to take into consideration how our decisions impact the five other lives that we co-created. For us, it’s been worth it to do the work together and see our adult children starting their own families. Listen in to hear more of my reflections and lessons as I celebrate 32 years of marriage.
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[00:00:00] Dana Frost: Welcome to Vitally You, a podcast created to introduce you to the tools that will be your roadmap for feeling younger while growing older. I'm your host, Dana Frost, a wellness expert, life coach and energy medicine practitioner. Here's what you can expect: conversations about vitality from the inside out with guests experts in the field of health, culture, and spirituality.
[00:00:24] And solo episodes along the way from me, where I do deep dives into the topics of aging, heart intelligence, energy medicine, and your innate capacity to heal. If you want to feel younger while growing older, this is the place for you.
[00:00:41] Hello, everybody. Welcome to this week's episode of the vital you. So 32 years ago, this week at the tender age of 24, I walked down the aisle to my love. Arm-in-arm with my dad, quite innocent and idealistic, to be honest, I had no idea what I was getting myself in. None of us really do, do we? Life is gentle in that way.
[00:01:10] Yes, it is gentle in that way, unless there's been significant trauma, we get to see the world through an innocent lens and we do deserve our season of innocence because eventually we all face trials and tribulations. Everybody in this week's podcast episode, I'm going solo to talk about marriage because, well, it's been 32 years and I probably have a few things to say, but mostly I want to share how my life has been impacted by my relationship with my husband.
[00:01:49] According to Malcolm Gladwell, we are pros. We've got our 10,000 hours of mastery. I have to laugh. The reality is that when marriage is concerned, you never really arrive at mastery. There's always a new frontier in your relationship. I was talking to my daughter yesterday. She was visiting me in Miami beach and we were walking after work.
[00:02:12] And she said, listening to me, talk about my relationship with her dad. She realized. We've known each other for 34 years, we've been married for 32 and there, she was like, I'm always amazed. You're always learning something new. And yeah, we are always learning something new. I do know that 10,000 hours, it does give you something.
[00:02:34] It is a serious bonus because it's muscle memory. You have enough experiences together to know that what comes up. Must come down and what is down eventually comes up. Now, I want to preface our conversation with a few introductory comments, and I'm hoping by the end of our time together, you will feel inspired in your own relationships.
[00:03:01] And you'll have at least one principle that you can practice where we are today. My husband and I it's not because everything went right. Honestly it's because many things went wrong and I will tell you that starry eyed, 24 year old, she did not know what would go wrong. And she was hoping everything would go right.
[00:03:27] And she had no idea how strong she really was. So most of you have been married at least once some of you have been divorced. Some of you are in long-term relationships, but not married. Some are, you were single, but I know one thing for sure. All of you have been in an intimate relationship of some kind.
[00:03:51] Relationships and marriages are as different as individuals. They are a force of their own and a blend of two separate people who have been shaped by their upbringing, their culture, their creed, class, and country, not all marriages last till death. Do them part. I was very idealistic in this when I was younger.
[00:04:16] Not all marriages are meant to last till death do them part. And just because my marriage has lasted 32 years, doesn't mean that I would judge you if yours did not my experiences, only my experience and not intended to cast judgment on. You're married or anyone's married experience. We all have our own journeys and your journey.
[00:04:41] It's perfect for you as his mind. For me, for me, it's been in this context of this deeply intimate relationship with my husband that I've encountered my own darkness and light. Also in the intimate relationships in our family. And what do I mean by darkness and light last week's episode, I had the wonderful Winnie as a guest and she talked about darkness and light.
[00:05:10] And how darkness is inside light and light is inside darkness. We cannot separate the two, but what do we mean by darkness and light? And what do we mean by the shadow? Really, I asked myself what we are capable of when we are capable of the most beautiful acts of loving kindness, and we're capable of, of the uglies, the behaviors.
[00:05:35] We don't want anyone else to see. Honestly, I had no idea. The uglies that were in me. I really didn't. I felt kind of, I don't know. I felt sweet and innocent and sounds so silly, but I was a good girl. Oh my goodness. How silly are those judgements? How silly, how silly? Because we need both dark and light and we are light and dark.
[00:06:08] No. So, let me just back up and share the bones of our relationship for context, because some of you won't know me and where I've come from. So my husband and I started out in the Midwest. Um, we did not go, we didn't, we weren't raised in the same state or city. We didn't go to university together. We met after university in Missouri, in Kansas city.
[00:06:31] Our dating was long distance for less than two years before we got married. And I joined him in Minneapolis. So he had been working in Kansas city and right as we met, he was transferred to Minneapolis. So our first seven years plus of marriage, we spent those years in truly the glorious city of the lakes, Minneapolis, that city it's one of my favorite cities in the United States, at least in the summertime and our time there was followed by 10 years abroad.
[00:07:03] So we left the country with our three daughters who were all born in Minneapolis. They were one was basically kind of a baby, a three-year-old and a. Our first stop was Argentina for two years. And then we had a short stint back in the U S followed by living in Brazil for eight years, followed by Geneva, Switzerland for a very short six months.
[00:07:25] Now, when we were assigned to Geneva, we thought, oh my goodness, we've hit the ex-pat lottery. We were ready to leave south America and, and experience something different as a family. And. We quickly realized it really wasn't the right place for our very large, very loud, very complex family. We were not buttoned up enough for a Geneva, although it was a very beautiful country.
[00:07:52] The cows are prestige. So as you can see, we navigated three continents as home. And actually, even though we were in Switzerland for six months, I will tell you we navigated schools for our kids. And it was actually a very complicated period in our life. So we've navigated three continents as home, and we traveled to six of the seven continents.
[00:08:15] We have raised five kids to adulthood. Our last daughter graduates May 6th from the university of central Florida with a hospitality degree. We adopted two children while we were living in San Paulo, Brazil, they were three and five at the time. So they're younger than ours. All of our kids are about two years apart.
[00:08:37] We have a daughter and her husband who live in San Francisco. We have two daughters who live in Chicago, a son who lives in Tulsa, and then this youngest daughter will be moving to Chicago. So in 2008, we repatriated to Chicago. And until last year we were firmly planted in Chicago. And currently we live between Miami beach and Chicago, because why, who wants to endure a Chicago winter?
[00:09:05] Sorry, Chicago, but your winters are a bitterly cold and gray. And I will tell you that one of my goals. For the empty nest was not spending winters in Chicago. And over this past year, I was able to make that a reality. So that's very exciting. Okay. So this episode. It felt a little daunting. I knew I wanted to do it.
[00:09:30] I've been working on it for awhile. So I've taken copious notes about my marriage and all the different things we've been through and the things that I've learned. And I will tell you just before I started recording, I decided I needed to keep it really simple. I made it way too complicated. So we have three lessons that I've learned in my marriage.
[00:09:53] Three ways that I've grown and they're big ones and we're going to stick to three because I want you to remember them. And, and I know for sure you are going to be able to relate. I know that you've all been in relationships and you were going to probably have learned many of these same lessons. So are you ready?
[00:10:14] Lesson number one? It actually comes from Proverbs and it's as iron sharpens iron. So one person sharpens another. Now I had read that verse before and I really had no idea of the significance and the weight, the really the beautiful weight of those 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 words. Because how has iron sharpened iron is sharpened under a tremendous amount of pressure?
[00:10:51] The point of my marriage, your marriage, a relationship is not just to be loved and to love rather it is simultaneously about sharpening your human ironing out the sharp edges. And we all have sharp edges so that your divinity can shine through that doesn't happen when it's all kittens and rainbows. I wish that it did.
[00:11:20] It's not all about puppies. That's actually not when the really good stuff happens. It happens in this messy, chaotic world of. Raising five kids for us moving continents, navigating different cultures and languages. Absorbing two kids into our family who had early childhood trauma. It happens in the midst of fatigue.
[00:11:44] It happens when you're stretched between competing roles and responsibility. That's real life. Real life is not a beautiful IgG worthy photo collage. It's not a magazine. It's not a movie. Nope. It's dirty and dusty. Most of the time, love is not a feeling most of the time. It's a verb. It's that sharpening?
[00:12:13] It's you spending yourselves on behalf of one another. And that doesn't mean that you don't meet your own needs or take care of yourself? No, actually, if you weren't practicing self care, you probably can't be a verb for your partner. You have to first be the love verb, the sharpening verb to yourself.
[00:12:34] Now you've heard me talk about my health crisis. So that was in 2011. So. I would say 2010, I do have memories of being really tired. And matter of fact, I was tired. A lot of the time. I was even tired before that I was tired when we lived in Brazil after the adoption, I can remember just wanting to go fall asleep on a Sunday afternoon.
[00:12:59] I was physically, mentally and emotionally tired. And my body obviously knew that. But I kept going and I will tell you when we got back to the U S so really starting and I would say, oh, nine. I felt myself disconnected from my husband. He was traveling all the time and I was holding down the home situation was managing the family and the kids and probably barely hanging on.
[00:13:27] I don't know. I'm sure I didn't look that way, but I probably internally felt that way. The truth is I needed my health crisis to wake up and most of us do need a crisis to wake up. And that's honestly how our partners respond during a crisis is very informative, but it says ironing, sharpening iron. When there's a lot of pressure, we really get to see what we're made of.
[00:13:51] And we're either going to crumble under the pressure or we're going to get stronger. And for me to get stronger, I actually needed to fall apart. And that's the gift of my health crisis. I fell apart and I. Slowly started to learn how to take care of myself. And I started to discern the disintegration in myself and in my relationship.
[00:14:18] Okay. So this will make sense, but I'm going to move on to lesson number two. This is a big one. We are both guilty and we are both innocent. Lesson number two, we are both guilty and we are both innocent and this is so important because we hurt each other and relationships. And it's so easy to say that the person who's done the most despicable act is the one who's guilty and the other is innocent.
[00:14:49] And you know what? It's just really not true. It takes two to take. We both contribute to the conditions that create whatever each one of us do to hurt the other. I will hurt you if I perceive you will hurt me because guess what? I must survive at all costs. This is the human condition survival, and this is huge.
[00:15:14] And where I had to get in my own relationship with my husband. We must see one another through this lens of survival. It's at the heart of actually how we are created. It's how our brain is created to survive. And when we're triggered and we begin to react out of our own survival mechanisms. The times that I've been most hurtful.
[00:15:42] And I will tell you, I discovered my dark side in the relationship with one of my children, actually my darkness, my real shadow side did not come out in my relationship with my husband. I mean, it did come out, but the real ugly uglies that I feel shameful about came out in a relationship with one of my children.
[00:16:01] But that darkness comes out because we are hurting and we are trying to survive that person who's doing the hurting is trying to survive. I know, I felt like I was drowning. I had no capacity to show up in a way that was healthy until I got help. And I began unwinding my own trauma and pain. I got help.
[00:16:24] I don't ever want you to forget that I got help. We got help. The converse is true for my husband. Here's a big secret. The only way I was able to forgive my husband of what felt like an unforgivable transgression was because I, myself had experienced my own dark side and it taught me that people who hurt others only do so out of their own pain and trauma.
[00:16:51] This is also huge by facing my own darkness and loving myself. Anyway, it was hard to get to the point of self forgiveness, actually experiencing forgiveness. And for me, my spiritual guide in this as Jesus accepting that I am loved, regardless of anything that I do. And I will tell you that this all happened years before the issues of my husband, that light had already penetrated my soul so much.
[00:17:21] It was just, it really was so much a part of me that I just, I remember when I was going through my own healing and my relationship with my daughter, I just knew I could never judge another human being again. So that was already very much a part of my. Human at that point. And I was able to extend love.
[00:17:45] So we are both guilty and we were both innocent. We really want to take the time to see the other person through the lens of their childhood or their trauma. Now this is never an excuse, but it does provide context and perspective. It's still requires that both people do their work of healing, their trauma, and there's no other way.
[00:18:10] It's just simply not going to work. Long-term if two people in the relationship don't do their own work, both people have to deal with their shadow. And that's what my husband and I have done. If you are partnered with someone who won't, then that's something you really need to look at. And you need to look at yourself, what's your shadow.
[00:18:34] And that shadow is anything you want to hide from others because you're embarrassed. You're shameful. You're traumatized. I can definitely tell you that there is tremendous healing and love. If you can sweat it out together and do the work and be committed to one another. Finally, I'm going to share lesson number three, and I want to say that my end game.
[00:19:00] There was a vision that kept me going through this decade of challenge in my marriage. It would have been so easy to part ways I'm telling you it would've just been easy to walk away, but I had a vision from the beginning of my marriage that I held in the forefront. So lesson number three, and you're going to learn what that vision was.
[00:19:22] Lesson number three, our relationship is not just about. We are intricately connected to anything and everything, every person we've co-created. And for us, that means five other lives. We need to take into consideration how our decisions impact those other lives, whatever we've co-created together.
[00:19:49] Otherwise. If we are simply thinking about ourselves in this regard, we are selfish. If we're only taking into context, our relationship with our partner and we're not considering what we've co-created. I do put that under the selfishness category. That doesn't mean you should stay together, but it means you need to be super thoughtful and tread lightly.
[00:20:13] This gets easily lost in today's cancel culture. And it's really hard to me to say that because you might feel like I'm being judgemental, but in today's cancel culture. If you hurt me, I will cancel you. If I disagree with you. You're. We make it way too easy to walk away. And this is what I found helpful in my marriage.
[00:20:36] Take a deep breath in and exhale, soften my shoulders. Lean in, not out mouth closed a lot of the time, heart, ears, and eyes wide open. Curiosity lean in with curiosity. What is the heart of my partner saying not what are we do need to look at the actions. So we do need to be really keenly aware of the actions.
[00:21:07] And, but when they're saying things and, and, and I would say their actions, yes. I mean, this is just such a fine little. Fine tuning of bringing in your curiosity and listening to their heart. You need to understand them. Listen, listen, listen. There's always more underneath. I promise you that there's always more, I learned things about my husband.
[00:21:31] I had no idea there were, I I'm still learning things about his history. Now I want you to know that I would never suggest that you lay everything on the alter of your kids. So the relationship it's not just not just about us. It's about what we've co-created and I would never say. Everything gets sacrificed on the altar of your kids, stay in an unhappy marriage suffering silence, or what did out now.
[00:21:59] That's just not really helpful to them. And it's actually quite toxic to everyone involved. So I really don't want you to hear me saying that. I am really saying because your relationship is not just about you. It's about. You and what you've, co-created, it's really worth it to do the work together and to see if at the end of doing your work.
[00:22:23] Is there something there? One of the first questions that our therapist asked me in our critical time of need, he asked me to remember when was the last time I remembered that my husband and I. We're really loving and supporting one another. When was the last time that I remembered my husband doing something for me?
[00:22:49] When did I feel supported? And when was the last time I felt truly connected and you know, it was not hard for me to remember. I could easily go back and remember, and the therapist said it's when you can't remember that. A real challenge. If you can remember which we could, it was easy for us to go back and have that reference point.
[00:23:12] That's that those are the 10,000 hours, the muscle memory that you have, if you can work it out, show up for yourself. And then for one another, I believe a family is the most powerful force in our modern world. Let me also say a family can be created. It doesn't have to be biological. Or in the context of marriage and kids, that's not the only way to create a family.
[00:23:41] I happen to have a very traditional family, but they come in all shapes and sizes. This is what I believe a family is. It's humans committed to one another, no matter what, it's humans who show up on Saturday morning together, it's humans who. Have dinner together. They break bread together. They wake up together, they support one another.
[00:24:02] They love one another. They sh they're showing up for one another. When other people aren't able to. Now in the heat of our marital despair, it was around 2017, 2018. I kept this as my vision that I'm going to share with you my original ideal, which was to grow old together. I know my husband and I knew he was going to be fun as we grew older.
[00:24:28] I want to do enjoy the years. After all the heavy lifting I wanted to be grandparents together. I wanted together our family around a table. I wanted to support our children. I wanted to be with their families as a team. I knew my husband. I still know he's going to be the best grandpa ever. And he loves to have fun.
[00:24:49] I knew that he would, you know, be a fun person to be around. He's got a ton of energy, way more energy than me. I'll be honest. I wanted in, on that for our older years, it's like you work hard together. You spend a lot of time working hard there's pressure, pressure, pressure. And I wanted what was on the other side of that pressure.
[00:25:09] And you know what, 32 years in, and we are enjoying the fruit of our labor and it's pretty darn amazing. So our oldest daughter is pregnant expecting in September and in February, as I was learning all of this excitement and I was experiencing where we've been, where we are, and that was, oh my gosh, we're going in that direction that I wanted to go.
[00:25:38] I just, it was, if everything had come full circle, I was like pinch me. The hard work was worth it. We made it, babe. We made it now. I don't know where you find yourself and your relationships as you are listening to this episode. But I do know there is always hope and there is always forgiveness and there's always a way through the wilderness.
[00:26:01] Your way through may look different than mine. The outcome may be different than mine, but I know that that fabric is there. The hope, the forgiveness, and the way I also know in a relationship, it takes two to make it work. I lopsided relationship is not sustainable. If you find yourself in one, please do not pass.
[00:26:24] Go and get help. I will tell you therapy has been one of the most important avenues of healing in our relationship. And let me end by sharing a book. That's made a big impact in my life. It's a tiny little book, but it's made a huge impact about relationships and you might be familiar with it. Our third daughter was in fifth grade.
[00:26:46] The teacher had the students start the year by reading a book. And the book at the time was new to me. This was probably in 2006, the four agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. She started the year out because fifth grade is when kids get a little bit funny with each other and each student had to, they read the book and each student had to choose one agreement and write an essay that was the first assignment of the year.
[00:27:12] It was truly brilliant. And then they committed to following the agreement during the year. And the teacher said it was just, it worked magic in setting the tone for the classroom. So let me share the four agreements, be impeccable with your word. Always do your best. Make no assumptions. Don't take anything personally.
[00:27:35] How powerful are those be impeccable with your word? Always do your best. Make no assumptions. And don't take anything. Personally. These simple rules blew me a way. Imagine if we all live by these rules at work and home and all of our relationships. We would transform society. We would not have frequent cancel culture.
[00:27:59] Y'all. So following these rules, I was a game changer in my own experience in my marriage, to be honest, it's not as if my husband ever took hold of the rules. I don't even remember if he read the book, but he probably did because he always is open to what I suggest. But most importantly I did and I made them my operating manual to the best of my ability.
[00:28:21] And quite frankly, they changed how I engaged in the world. I was rarely triggered these little rules, bring us back to innocence. Remember where I started with the innocent mindset, that young woman, 24, walking down the aisle with her arm and her linked with her dad and meeting her love and having all the hope of that union before her today, feeling younger while growing older, feel.
[00:28:53] Like keeping an innocent mindset towards others. So how about you? What does feeling younger while growing older mean to you? I would love to know. Thank you for joining me this week. I have a special gift I created, especially for you. I remember how hard it was to even imagine I had time for self care, but little by little day by day, I was able to heal myself.
[00:29:23] And through the years through all my gosh, everything I've studied. I am a continual student, always learning. I've gathered a toolbox of self care rituals and tips, and I've packaged them up in an ebook for you. Simply go to the link in the show notes to download your copy today. If you are joining this show, please hit subscribe and leave a review.
[00:29:46] You have no idea how much this helps me rise above the podcast traffic. And tell next week I am streaming love from my heart to yours. .