Words like epigenetics and methylation may or may not sound foreign to you, but in today’s episode, Hannah Went, Director of Operations at TruDiagnostic, breaks down the science behind those aging-related markers. Hannah and I talk about the groundbreaking genetic testing that’s going on at TruDiagnostic. We discuss my test results and the ways that TruDiagnostic is helping their clients discover how they’re aging. We also talk about the different ages of our bodies, and I share insights about how I’ve managed to knock 5 years off my chronological age and 16 years off my immune age.
TruDiagnostic gives their clients the information they need so that they optimize their lifestyle to feel younger while growing older. They have one of the largest epigenetic databases in the world, with about 13,000 people tested to date. In today’s episode, we discuss how TruDiagnostic’s sophisticated algorithms identify how quickly your body is aging at a biological level, which results in your ‘TruAge.’
The lab provides advanced metrics, comparison tracking reports, and a treatment framework. Listen in to learn more about this cutting-edge epigenetic testing laboratory.
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[00:00:00] Dana Frost: Welcome to Vitally You®, a podcast created to introduce you to the tools that will be your roadmap for feeling younger while growing older. I'm your host, Dana Frost, a wellness expert, life coach, and energy medicine practitioner. Here's what you can expect: conversations about vitality from the inside out with guests experts in the field of health, culture, and spirituality. And solo episodes along the way from me, where I do deep dives into the topics of aging, heart intelligence, energy medicine, and your innate capacity to heal. If you want to feel younger while growing older, this is the place for you.
Hi, everybody. Welcome to this week's episode of the Vitally You® podcast, feeling younger while growing older, I am so excited to have this guest today Hannah Went is with us and she's representing TruDiagnostic. So let me, let me first tell you about TruDiagnostic. It's a leading health data company with a focused on multiomics and insights gained from the fluid epigenome.
We're going to explain what all that means so don't worry if those are new words to you. It was established in early 2020 after development and build out of its 10,000 square foot state-of-the-art laboratory, illumina equipment, and consultation. It launched its first physician and patient test True Age, we're going to talk about what that means today. TruDiagnostic has built a premiere epigenetic database of DNA, methylation markers, and co-variants, which is one of the largest in the world. The company is currently involved in several clinical studies to examine the effectiveness of products that claim to offer anti-aging benefits, and research projects to create and validate other algorithms to track aging and disease.
I know that's a mouthful, but I promise you we're going to break everything down. Now, let me introduce you to Hannah. I want to say that Hannah is here today because I met Hannah and the founder of her company while I was at the biohacking conference in September. I've always been interested in knowing I've been reading about true age versus your biological age and your chronological age versus your biological age. I've been super curious. I stumbled upon their booth at the biohacking conference, and they explained what they were doing. And I was like, I'm in. I want to do this because I've had wanted to do it for awhile.
So Hannah attended the University of Kentucky. She graduated with a degree in biology, and during that time she had multiple research internships at the University of Kentucky studying cell signaling and cell biology. After graduation, she worked for the international peptides society as their director of content and research.
She is now the director of operations at TruDiagnostic. This is the company that we're going to be talking about today. And we are going to touch on what my results were and what all those words mean and what this new field means that truly has the impact to give you the information you need so that you match your lifestyle with the things that are going to help you age in a way so that you actually feel younger while you're growing older. So, Hannah, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for being here.
[00:03:35] Hannah Went: Yeah, thank you so much, Dana. That was a great introduction. I'm super excited to be here. Um, it was great meeting you at that biohacking conference. Um, and then, you know, taking the test as well, reviewing those results with you. So I'm really excited to dig into those, uh, today as well.
[00:03:50] Dana Frost: Yes. So, Hannah reviewed my results a couple of weeks ago and she agreed to be on the podcast. So that's how we got here, everybody. And I have a feeling that you will all want to do this lab work when we're finished and we will have a special code for you. And it's all like super exciting. So tell us, Hannah, how did you get involved with TruDiagnostic?
[00:04:12] Hannah Went: So, like Dana said, I actually graduated from the University of Kentucky with a biology degree. That was in may of 2019. Really after I graduated, I got involved into this integrative peptide space you could call it. So I, I was brought on by the international peptide society worked more in their content realm, but during that time, I really learned about this field of preventable medicine, which I just found super interesting.
If you can really prevent diseases and you know, the onset of those different diseases, why wouldn't you do that? So I really got into this integrative medicine space and was lucky to meet a lot of great people along. That being said, I really, uh, you know, have always just loved genetics and epigenetics in the past.
So did a lot of work during my college career with self signaling and in a couple of different labs at the University of Kentucky and really how TruDiagnostic started is I met those founders of the international peptide society who were actually the same founders of TruDiagnostic. So really got, uh, you know, myself in a lucky position, loved the application of this genetics and epigenetic testing.
And we started building the lab, uh, here in, in Lexington, Kentucky in January of 2020. Like Dana said, once that was really started and implemented and fully CLIA approved and you know, all of our SLPs and everything set up via lab specialist here in Lexington, uh, we actually ran our first test in about July of 2020. So we, uh, you know, work with a lot of healthcare providers and then the typical consumer as well who's just interested in, you know, biohacking their biology.
[00:05:46] Dana Frost: Yeah. So I was so surprised, Hannah, when I read that the company only started in 2020, because the database you have is so robust. And one, I mean, you, you are so young, but you seen like, you're obviously just so well-grounded in the material.
And I can say that just because I did my review with you and you really know what you're talking about. So how is it that the company so quickly was able to amass this amazing database so that you have something? How can I say this? When you were reviewing and compiling someone's information, right? And you're comparing it, you need a really large database. How did that database come to be? I'm just super curious.
[00:06:30] Hannah Went: That's a great question, because what becomes extremely important about this information is, is the data behind it. So we have, uh, you know, one of the largest epigenetic databases in the world. We've tested about 13,000 people to date. So that does seem like a very high number in a short amount of time.
But I do have to give credit to all of our health care providers that use our testing. So these healthcare providers, again, who are in this preventative integrative medicine space are also collecting a lot of covariate data, whether it's labs, uh, genomic testing, instead of the epigenetic testing, maybe microbiome testing, nutritional testing, et cetera.
So once we receive those covariate data and covariate variables, I should say it becomes easier to come up with new types of new algorithms, et cetera. So they've definitely helped us along the way. We, we do encourage even the consumer who takes our tests to submit other types of data, just because again, it will, it will help grow the database and really make those algorithms even more accurate and precise.
[00:07:31] Dana Frost: That's really interesting. Can you tell us for our listeners, for anyone, I know that the word, epi genome or epigenetics, it's becoming common, but some people may not know what that word means. Do you mind describing that word?
[00:07:45] Hannah Went: Absolutely. So I really like to start off almost comparing genetics and epigenetics because a lot of people in this space are familiar with genetics. Genetics is your baseline DNA sequence, right? For the most part unchangeable, when you get into these epigenetics, that is the expression of those genes. So what makes your eye cells, uh, vastly different from your heart cells. And it's because of epigenetics. So it's how those genes are being turned on in turn off.
[00:08:12] Dana Frost: Yeah. So that's one of the things that you break down in the reports is what are the things that I could potentially do, you know, as you're reading report, what are the things that people can do to turn those genes on and off? So I want to just focusing on the company for a moment, what is the mission of the company?
[00:08:30] Hannah Went: Another great question. The mission, and I should say vision of the company is, is really to give people as many insights as possible as it relates to their epigenome. The reason that's important is because really any variable can be cross-trained to reflect a certain outcome, looking at those methylation markers or epigenetics.
For example, we can tell you insights based on your proteins or even your genetics via your methylation markers, just because of how easy it is to get your sample and how cheap it is to also do this type of testing. So we really just want to make the subject known. It's very important to also identify disease early, which is what we help with as well. That way people can intervene early.
[00:09:14] Dana Frost: That's great. I love that. I love that mission. It certainly fits with my podcast, which is why I wanted to have you on the podcast. I mentioned chronological age versus biological age. This was what attracted me to your booth. Can you tell our listeners what the difference is?
[00:09:31] Hannah Went: Absolutely. And, and I really like to compare the two by starting out with chronological age. So chronological age is the number of candles you have on your birthday cake. It's that, uh, you know, pure age from the day, uh, you know, right now to the day you were born. That biological age is essentially the age of your cells. The age of your body.
We all know that that chronological age, you know, really isn't a great measurement for age at all, because we all know someone who's 30 that looks like they're 50 and someone who's 50, that looks like they're 30. So the idea of this biological age is getting someone's true age of their body. That way again, you can really identify their aging process early on.
[00:10:10] Dana Frost: I love that. So let's tell the listeners, my chronological and true age. So my chronological age is 55 and my true age was 50 something, 50 point something. So I thought that was really interesting. I was excited about that. I will take the test probably in the spring.
Our listeners know that I use these patches, that one patch activates stem cells, and so I want to track. In March, I will have been on the patches for a year. I'd love to track to see hm does that true age go down after a year of the patches? So I did this True Age test in September. So there'll be some time, you know, like six months in between using the patches and then testing with TruDiagnostic and then six more months.
And we'll see, we'll see what happens. So you have a few other markers that I found to be really interesting, Hannah, particularly in light of where we've been globally over the past, almost two years with COVID, and it was the, I don't know if I'm going to say this correctly immunosenescence? Immunosenescence age. Is it true to say that or?
[00:11:23] Hannah Went: Yeah, so essentially you're you're immune age. Um, we're, we're not essentially measuring that senescent cell burden. That's that's coming in the future, but more of that immune age.
[00:11:31] Dana Frost: The immune age. So why don't you explain the immune age? Cause this really kind of surprised me. I'd love to hear about the immune age.
[00:11:39] Hannah Went: Absolutely. So what Dana was just describing there, the results that she stated was a reflection of what we call her intrinsic epigenetic age. That intrinsic epigenetic age is, is really the baseline aging of your body. So you're pure DNA methylation age on the flip side, that immune age is what we call your extrinsic epigenetic age.
Since we do use blood as a sample type that may be worrisome if we don't separate those different cell types in your blood. So for that immune age, we're not accounting for all of those differences. And we're actually paying attention to your B cells, your T cells, your natural killer cells, et cetera. So that immune age, again, you can really think about that as a reflection of how your immune system is aging across your entire lifetime.
[00:12:28] Dana Frost: Across the lifetime. So it's not, it's not really just a snapshot.
[00:12:33] Hannah Went: Correct. So, that is the same with both your intrinsic in your extrinsic epigenetic age.
[00:12:39] Dana Frost: So I think that's a really important distinction for people to make that many times our lab work it's really, if we look at hormones, it's just a snapshot what's happening in that moment. So this lab work is looking at the lifespan. Wow. That's really interesting.
So let's tell the listeners what my immune age is that what you said it would be was 30, I think 39 point something. What I find so interesting is that I, our listeners know I had this health crisis in 2011, and there was like a ten-year period when I was sick a lot.
I had a lot of stress and I got sick often. And I would have said my immune health is really not that strong. Every time I traveled, literally every time I traveled, I would land in Chicago and I got sick with what were called and flu symptoms. That's been years ago and I rarely, I mean, I've only been sick once in the past, maybe five years.
So I was really interested to see that my immune health, to me, I think that's really strong 39 and 55. And so that shows, I think it shows, and you tell me if this is true from a scientific perspective, that I've done a lot to bolster my immune system. Would you say that that's true?
[00:14:03] Hannah Went: Absolutely. And on average, to give the listeners here kind of a perspective on how that immune algorithm works, I should say typically on average, you see the immune age always being about five to seven years younger than someone's chronological age.
Dana obviously surpasses even, even that, but you're exactly right. Even those may be flu like symptoms or the period when you were very, very sick for quite some time may have had an effect on your current state. Even maybe some of your, you know, immune cell subset readings, but that just shows that, uh, it's not, uh, for the long run. So you've been taking a very, very good care of yourself and something you should absolutely be proud of.
[00:14:44] Dana Frost: Thank you. Well, you know, what, what I really want us to do is to inspire the listeners that there are lifestyle hacks, strategies that you can implement. So that you change your outcomes, your genetic expression in a year, from now in five years from now. We know that the cells in the stomach regenerate, we know that our cells regenerate, and this is your area of specialty.
So I'm just kind of throwing this out there because we need to talk about methylation. So maybe you could just give us some of your wisdom on methylation, what that means, because we're looking at the cells. Just tell us a little bit about that.
[00:15:27] Hannah Went: Yeah. I want to make this as easy as possible for the listeners to understand, because it is a very, very new topic. One that's been getting a lot of attention, but is hard to understand, especially if you, you don't have any background knowledge regarding it. Methylation and epigenetics is pretty much two interchangeable. Methylation, when you're talking about a pure methyl group that is essentially a chemistry attachment on the molecule, ch three more methylation and less methylation is what is controlling the expression of those genes.
So some genes we want to be turned on some genes we want to be treated. For example, you wouldn't want a tumor suppression gene to be turned off. You want a tumor suppression gene to be turned on to help suppress tumors. So again, it really comes down to a particular position, the gene, which it's located on to determine if you want to have more methylation at that particular spot or less methylation at that particular spot.
What we do at TruDiagnostic is tests about 900,000 of those methylation positions. That may seem like a lot. And it is, but there are about 26 million different methylation markers in one cell.
[00:16:35] Dana Frost: In one cell in one cell?
[00:16:37] Hannah Went: Correct. So, so yeah, you can talk about again, just how much data you can gather in is possible to gather. Um, so 900,000 still seems like a lot, but again, capturing a very small picture.
[00:16:50] Dana Frost: That's so fascinating, Hannah.
[00:16:52] Hannah Went: Absolutely. And you know what we're really doing with those 900,000 positions for each intrinsic age extrinsic agent and the other reports that we have to offer, we're looking at a variety of those methylation markers.
So we might be looking at one, we may be looking at 500, interpreting those using, you know, net regression, elastic models to then predict those different outcomes such as your, you know, more as it relates to that aging process.
[00:17:18] Dana Frost: What would you say, I mean, I know my motivation, it's curiosity. This is longevity is something I'm really passionate about. What would you say would be the motivation for someone to do the TruDiagnostic testing?
[00:17:31] Hannah Went: Great question, Dana. Um, you know, I would say people in general are just curious, right?
[00:17:36] Dana Frost: Curiosity is a great reason.
[00:17:38] Hannah Went: Yeah.They really are. So a lot of people, you know, that's exactly how we met, especially at those biohacking conferences. In, in, in this space, a lot of people are just curious. They want to perform and have run studies on themselves. And this is the first test that actually quantifies objectively how you're aging. So a lot of people are taking this test to number one, get a baseline, because again, they're curious or they want to slow the progression of aging.
And it all comes back to this problem that aging is the number one risk factor for all chronic disease. So this test is actually looking at that aging process. And I think most people are curious about how they're aging, because they not only want to increase their lifespan, but their health span. So how long can they live more healthy? Um, not with, uh, you know, disease ridden or, or disease burden.
[00:18:26] Dana Frost: Yeah. So one of my risk factors is diabetes. I was pre-diabetic. We talked about that when we did my review and I was really fascinated to learn on my review that I was not at risk for diabetes.
[00:18:40] Hannah Went: Yeah. And you know, those are what we call our, um, specific low side test. So for those, we're looking at two out of the 900,000 markers that we're actually measuring. And the report Dana is referring to is actually more accurate than HBA one C levels and fasting insulin. And can really tell you if you're going to have the onset of diabetes about seven years before you start to even see symptoms. So this is a very, very predictive test. And you know, one thing Dana and I talked about is genetics is just one part of the picture, right? So these epigenetics also give you further insight about your relative risk later on in.
[00:19:15] Dana Frost: Well, we all have our history. We all have our genetic history predisposition. And if you're curious about what's the potential gene expression, what are some of the things that I could do to mitigate the things I don't want and enhance the things that I do want? This is just a really excellent opportunity to gain those insights.
[00:19:37] Hannah Went: Yeah, so this is a precision medicine at its finest. I should say. In particular, we have one algorithm called the Dunedin pace. This is actually the third generation clock is what people are calling it. And it's the only phenotypically trained clock available on, on the market.
I'm sure Dana will give you some insights into her results, but you know, like we talked about with intrinsic and extrinsic age, that's really a progression of your aging over your entire lifetime. The difference with this doomed in pace is that it's telling you how you're aging, right? So how you're aging biologically, uh, for every one chronological year.
And that becomes really important because again, it's, it comes back to that precision medicine. This is the type of algorithm where you can get a baseline, start a regimen retest in eight weeks or 12 weeks and see how that regimen is actually, uh, changing your aging process.
[00:20:26] Dana Frost: So Hannah, I am pulling up my Dunedin analysis and maybe you can tell us what it means. So my pace of aging is 0.78. What does that mean? We talked about it, but yeah.
[00:20:42] Hannah Went: Absolutely. So, Dana right now, I should say at the time that she actually submitted the sample is aging 0.78 years biologically for every one chronological year. So the importance with that, and to give you a more of a scale, that's usually a number between 0.6 and 1.4.
Again, her score is 0.78. So it's a great score to be completely honest. As long as you have that score below one, that's really all you care about. Because again, that is a reducing your risk for a lot of different diseases. That Dunein pace algorithm is even predictive of things like your grip strength, your balance, even, you know, how you look, your facial aging, your brain health. So, you know, different MRI imaging is really a, you know, the top of its class type of algorithm. That one would exactly want to use.
[00:21:30] Dana Frost: That's fascinating. So that's a huge benefit of taking this test. And then the other one that you measure is the Tila mirrors. And maybe you could speak into that. So let me go, let me just quickly peek at my result on the Tila mirrors, it was, so it looks like it's five out of seven and mine was 7.1?
[00:21:53] Hannah Went: Yeah, exactly. And to go into that a little bit more as well, what we're really looking at is telomere length based on methylation. We can now predict telomere length based on the data that again, we've collected from our patients combined with publicly available data. So we're able to estimate your telomere length, provide you with your percentile in our population and estimate, uh, what we call your Tealium your age as a result of that telomere length. So again, Dana scored great.
[00:22:20] Dana Frost: So that's really interesting. I think this was one of the tests we didn't have time to review.
[00:22:25] Hannah Went: I don't think we covered it too intensely, I should say.
[00:22:28] Dana Frost: Yeah. And so can you just say more like what? So my estimated telomere age is 42. And is it the length? Maybe just help us understand. Cause I don't really understand. Your telomeres shorten with age, right?
[00:22:43] Hannah Went: Correct.
[00:22:44] Dana Frost: And you want them to be longer.
[00:22:47] Hannah Went: Yes, that is also correct. So what happens over time is a, you know, as we age, as we become more susceptible to disease, we're actually losing the caps of our telomeres. And that is important because we want our telomeres to be elongated.
I will say while this type of testing that we do with the methylation is, is more correlated to outcomes than your regular leukocyte, Tulum, your length. You know, not many people have actually investigated if, if this metric is associated with any improvement, So, what we do know is it's good to know and have a longer telomere length because we know it's associated with better outcomes, but, uh, you know, we're not sure that it's the most clinically useful metric out there on the market, but still, you know, you still want long telomeres.
[00:23:33] Dana Frost: Well, Ithink Hannah, it's good to have a baseline.
[00:23:36] Hannah Went: Correct.
[00:23:37] Dana Frost: You take the test, you get a baseline and I'll be super curious when I retake this in March. Because two of the patches I use supposedly lengthen telomeres. So I have this baseline. I can check it and just see, you know, again, out of curiosity.
It's also interesting. I want to just take a quick little peek at my notes. There's just so much that we can talk about and I have a feeling we're going to have to have you back on again. Oh, so, one of the things that you provide in the report, it's a treatment framework. And everything that you have on here. It's interesting.
It's what I do with clients. And it's looking at what are those lifestyles practices. And so on that framework, it has fitness, nutrition, medications, alcohol, sleep, exposures, co-morbidities and psychosocial. All really important aspects of how we age ,and the things that we can do. So you had, I thought that this was really interesting.
And so when you do a questionnaire, so they take just so the listeners know it's not simply your blood work. It's your blood work, but you're also answering questions. And one of the things I must have noted is how often I exercise and I think for nutrition I put, I meant to put, I eat everything. I eat meat, I eat vegetables, I eat fish, but I think it was mostly meat and vegetables is what I checked.
And the report said that I would benefit from including fish and poultry. Which I do eat fish and poultry, but I thought that was really interesting because our bodies benefit when we can eat a little bit of everything.
[00:25:14] Hannah Went: Absolutely. And to touch on that a little bit, there have been some, I should say dietary studies, which do prove to increase or decrease that biological age. And some of those studies are more of the Mediterranean diets where you're getting a little bit of everything, right. And overall caloric restriction as well. Um, some of you listeners may be familiar with the calorie trial, the randomized control trial, where they reduced 20% caloric intake over a two year period. So those two in particular have shown to benefit that biological age.
[00:25:45] Dana Frost: Oh, that's really interesting. So I'm not familiar with that study, but what I am familiar with, I've done some studying and I did a seven day water fast in February, and I did some studying on fasting and the benefits. Does that study, is that tied into fasting in any way, Hannah?
[00:26:02] Hannah Went: Yeah. I love the fasting conversation. I'm very fascinated with, with all of that. What we do know right now in terms of methylation is that we don't know if fasting helps or hinders. So TruDiagnostic, we are currently involved in about 30 different clinical trials looking at before and after methylation markers. Fasting is coming up.
It is one of them I will say though, if fasting helps you reduce those calories, then there's some benefit to it because you're, you're mixing both, you know, the caloric restriction and fasting. So absolutely. If fasting helps reduce those calories.
[00:26:34] Dana Frost: Yeah. It's so interesting. When we talk about caloric restriction and I'm going to be really curious to learn the outcomes of your studies because as women, I know we think of disordered eating is, you know, a real challenge for many women and caloric restriction can induce all sorts of experiences, memories of what that means. And I know that's not how the study is intending it to mean, but so I'm going to just be really fascinated to see what those outcomes are.
I think that honestly for today, I think that that is, I think we've covered a really nice overview of what TruDiagnostic offers and I will have in the show notes for everybody. There will be a link to submit a request, I guess. There is a discount code.
[00:27:25] Hannah Went: And when you use the code, Dana, D A N A, you'll receive 10% off either of our packages.
[00:27:30] Dana Frost: Okay, perfect. So, and listeners, if you do this test, I would love to hear from you. I would love to talk about your results and just what your experience was. It's so fascinating to have the conversation with Hannah. I don't know if there's another person in your organization who does the review of the results, but it's really fascinating.
And I have to ask you one question, Hannah, that I asked all of my guests, and that is, and I know that you're still really young, but what does feeling younger, growing older mean to you?
[00:28:01] Hannah Went: Oh, again, I, I feel like I say this every time you ask a question, but that's another great question. It means both having a healthy lifespan and health span. I really do think that's the key because if I'm living until I'm a hundred, I don't want to also be taking 10 different pills. I also don't want to be fragile. I want to be able to walk. Right. I want to be able to move, to see a, you know, my grand children one day, maybe. I don't want to be bedridden. So the, the health span I really have to touch on there. So I think it means both to be healthy and obviously live longer as well.
[00:28:37] Dana Frost: I really love that, Hannah. And I earlier, when you said health span, I've heard that, you know, in a few places, but it really sparked for me today when you said that. So I want to start using that word. I have really enjoyed this interview. I love all of your insights.
You are such a bright, smart, young person, and we are all going to benefit from your research and all the information that you're bringing forth in TruDiagnostic. So thank you so much. And as always, streaming love from my heart to yours. Thank you so much listeners for joining us on the Vitally You® podcast.
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