Welcome to this week’s episode of the Vitally You® Podcast where we talk to Mindy Gorman-Plutzer about making peace with ourselves, our body, and our relationship with food. Mindy is passionate about helping people explore, understand and ultimately transform their health through their relationship with food. This has led her on a journey of creating The Freedom Promise, a coaching practice dedicated to guiding you on the most valuable journey of your life. She believes that recovery is not a one-size-fits-all model, but rather incorporates individual beliefs and behaviors as they relate to health, food choices, and lifestyle practices. In today’s episode, we will also learn more about Mindy’s book The Freedom Promise: 7 Steps to Stop Fearing What Food Will Do to You and Start Embracing What It Can Do for You and hear from her about how we can learn to embrace our bodies by not fearing food. Join us on today’s episode as we learn more about these resources as well as Mindy’s personal recovery journey!
Are you ready to reclaim your body and eat in a way that fuels your body, soul, and mind? Mindy is passionate about helping people explore, understand and ultimately transform their relationship with food. This has led her on a journey to create The Freedom Promise--a coaching practice dedicated to guiding you on the most valuable journey of your life. She believes that recovery is not a one-size-fits-all model, but rather incorporates individual beliefs and behaviors as they pertain to health, food choices, and lifestyle practices. She challenges us to find love within ourselves and to chase freedom from oppression. By daring to dream of a future that is not bound to unhealthy eating habits, we can learn how to live a life no longer bound by fear.
Join us on today’s episode as we speak to Mindy about her book The Freedom Promise: 7 Steps to Stop Fearing What Food Will Do to You and Start Embracing What It Can Do for You, and hear from her about how we can learn to embrace our bodies and rid ourselves of disordered eating habits. We will also discuss how she combines functional nutrition, positive psychology, and mind-body science into her practice. This not only provides a more holistic view of an individual’s health but also allows us to heal our bodies faster. We all have a right to feel safe, valid, happy, and loved in the bodies we were born into. Curious to learn more? Join us on today’s episode to learn how to incorporate these practices into your everyday life.
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[00:00:08] Dana Frost: Welcome to Vitally You®. A podcast created to introduce you to the tools that will be your roadmap for Feeling Younger While Growing Older. I'm your host Dana frost, a wellness expert, life coach, and energy medicine practitioner.
Here's what you can expect conversations about vitality from the inside out with guest experts in the field of health, culture, and spirituality, and solo episodes along the way from me where I do deep-dives into the topics of aging, heart intelligence, energy medicine, and your innate capacity to heal. If you want to feel younger while growing older, this is the place for you.
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[00:00:52] Dana Frost: I'd love to welcome everyone to the Vitally You® Podcast. And I particularly want to welcome my guest Mindy Gorman-Plutzer. Mindy brings 25 years of experience to her private practice as a certified Functional Nutrition and Eating Psychology coach.
Mindy's life experience and training inspired her to create a framework that combines functional nutrition, positive psychology, and mind-body science. Introducing a compassionate resolution to physical and emotional challenges resulting from chronic and complex health issues as they relate to eating disorders.
She's the author of The Freedom Promise: 7 Steps to Stop Fearing What Food Will Do to You and Start Embracing What It Can Do for You. Well, Mindy is a dear nutrition colleague of mine. We've been working together for several years, her deep wisdom and empathy make her a standout healing facilitator. I've referred her to my daughter and to others struggling with eating disorders. And I know, I will always get a huge message of gratitude for sending them to their last stop professional. So I'm so excited to have you here, Mindy.
[00:02:13] Mindy Gorman: Dana, I am here with you, with my heart. I'm just so grateful for you, the wisdom that you continually share. And I'm looking at this as an opportunity to change the conversation around growing older, bringing grace and dignity, to the process and any other topic that we can bring up to inspire our audience.
[00:02:39] Dana Frost: I was thinking that our conversation today, of this podcast, as we know is about Feeling Younger While Growing Older. And it might feel like an unexpected conversation, this conversation about disordered eating in midlife and beyond. But what I have learned from you is that it is truly exponential, what we see with people who are in midlife and beyond with disordered eating.
And we know that it's so vitally important that when we come to the stage in life. as we're growing older, that we embrace all of our challenges. All of the beautiful things that have happened in life, and we really understand who we are as a person. And if eating disorders has been part of our story, just to bring peace to that aspect of our experience. So Mindy, I'm so excited to have this conversation with you.
So Mindy, tell me, when you think about this conversation, of feeling younger growing older, and the idea of, for anyone who's had a disordered relationship with eating what comes to mind for you, Mindy?
[00:03:55] Mindy Gorman: Compassion, acceptance, and forgiveness. And we can talk about each of those conditions, feelings, associations, throughout our conversation today. But I need to say that there is so much emotionally driven conversations today. About how we think about our bodies, how we experience our bodies, how we have experienced our bodies.
What's missing is the connection to our bodies. What's missing are the lessons learned from those experiences, right? So my personal and professional experience has taught me that it's often easier to leave our bodies, than to feel the anxiety, and fear that's also often buried within us. And it's so true for so many, if not all, of the women I work with.
So if you take that into account, when you think about the images of youth that surround us. The messages that reinforce, what I believe it's a flawed belief, in the term anti-aging. We have to question the practices that we're starting to claim to.
[00:05:10] Dana Frost: Yeah, I think that's really interesting, this idea of what's the perception of our body as we mature, and you bring up this idea of leaving the body? Can you speak more into that, Mindy?
[00:05:26] Mindy Gorman: Absolutely.
[00:05:27] Dana Frost: Especially as it relates to someone who's had disordered eating, and I mean, it relates to all of us, right?
[00:05:34] Mindy Gorman: Yeah. What I'm referring to is the fact that, and this is really important for our audience to understand. Disordered eating, eating disorders are not the problem, they start out as a solution. Actually a brilliant solution, in the minds way of wanting to protect us.
Very often, for a myriad of reasons, we stopped feeling safe in our bodies. So that could be childhood trauma, it could be messages that we received, it could be experiences that were living through the life cycle. And in an effort to protect us, we resort to behaviors that are meant to be self-soothing. And since, food, for many of us is love, and safety, and security, remember, it's our first experience with being seen and heard.
[00:06:30] Dana Frost: Oh, that is really interesting, because I always say what is common to all humans around the globe is the desire to be seen and heard. And I had never made that connection that it is; feeding it is the first experience of being seen and heard. Mindy, this is huge, because I'm going to let this flow. But I'm going to my adopted daughter, who was not seen and heard the first three years of her life. Not in any real significant way, and even in terms of just hunger cues. And so on the whole spectrum of our experience as a newborn, being seen and heard, and how pre-language that could set in motion patterns that get played out through the life cycle.
[00:07:28] Mindy Gorman: And if we want to dive a little deeper into that, as newborns, there's no ego, there's no autonomy, we are totally dependent on the caregiver, the person who is responsible for our nurturing/nourishment. As we grow older and we develop a sense of self, and develop some autonomy and split off. At some point, we need to figure out how to navigate if we feel safe, if we feel seen, if we feel heard, then the flow is going to be healthier, if you will. If we have to figure out ways to navigate, strategies to get us through for survival then something goes askew.
[00:08:18] Dana Frost: Yeah, I'm really feeling this conversation. Because these patterns of feeling safe, can be disrupted at any moment in our lives. And the way that we protect ourselves can be protective for a period of time, and then at some point, they might feel like the pattern isn't safe.
[00:08:40] Mindy Gorman: That's exactly what happens. So what I share with my clients all the time, because they essentially come to me feeling broken, feeling like they've failed. What I explain is that it's the system has failed them, and that the behaviors that they are resorting to are the best that they can do at the time. And that in itself becomes very empowering, after a lifetime of disempowering feelings and behaviors.
So we explain and I explain, and we go through this therapeutic process together and understand the context within which the behaviors evolved. Where was the need to feel safe? Why was the need to feel safe? So the behaviors evolve as a way to navigate the world that they're finding themselves in, to create this worldview for themselves. Now, the worldview has changed, and particularly in midlife, where we've got all these messages, this belief system. How do we re-learn? How do we re-frame those messages and basically reinvent the way we've been navigating the world around us.
[00:09:57] Dana Frost: That was beautifully said, Mindy, and I want to just highlight something you said, "The system failed us." And if we can step out of our situation for a moment, and I always say just elevate above, go to the balcony take a look down. When you said that it made me just really feel this overwhelming sense of self-compassion. Compassion for that we can have self-compassion, if we can see, we're not necessarily the problem. So many times we have self-blame and judgment.
Can you just touch on what are some of the clues that someone might be able to identify? If this is true for them. If they've gone out of body. If they've disconnected, if there's an unhealthy pattern happening. What are some of the clues they might be looking for?
[00:10:54] Mindy Gorman: Being consumed with thoughts of food. Being consumed about what they are going to eat or what they are not going to eat. By turning to or away from food, as in a response to stress, anger, loneliness, even boredom, grief. Which, of course, we'll talk about all the triggers that can happen in midlife, that can bring about an eating disorder that might have resolved itself or appeared for the first time.
So it's being consumed with appearance, latching on to anything external. Eat this, don't eat, messages of eat this, don't eat that, what the scale is telling you. Focusing on parts of the body that you're unhappy with, and then of course, the behaviors. Attempting to follow the right kind of food plans during the day, but then losing yourself at night in the kitchen, to the refrigerator, or the pantry. Giving up your power to the food, having a "I don't care attitude." Using food in an effort to numb, avoid, and distract from what's really calling for your attention.
[00:12:14] Dana Frost: So I like to have the framework that, "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free." And so I wanted to ask that question because we have to understand what to look for. Those are really great examples, and then when we are able to see, "Oh, these are some of the patterns?" What are some of the ways that we can bring in safety, that sense of feeling safe, feeling seen, feeling heard.
[00:12:42] Mindy Gorman: I'd love to suggest journaling. At the end of the day, actually write out pen to paper, things that happened that day that make you feel safe. A great conversation. A walk in the park, that you returned safely home from.
If it has to do about food eating when you're hungry, stopping when you've had enough. Another sign I want to say before, a really, really triggering one, a huge one, is not trusting your hunger. Not listening to your hunger, either denying it because you fear it or ignoring it. And or eating when you're not hungry in an effort to not distract or avoid.
[00:13:29] Dana Frost: I think everybody can relate to that one Mindy.
[00:13:31] Mindy Gorman: Exactly. It's important to understand that it's mindset that it encompasses all of that. The behaviors basically are symptoms, it's the thought process that's driving the behaviors. So I like to say it's the disordered thinking that's driving the disordered eating. And in my mind, disordered eating is basically driven by misinformation, guided by misgiving beliefs.
[00:14:04] Dana Frost: Okay, that's huge. I just feel like I have to take that in for a moment. That was very profound, Mindy, I have goosebumps all over. Disordered thinking, when you back up, you've got a disordered eating. You back it up to disordered thinking, disordered or unhealthy beliefs. Which brings me to the work that I've done with my clients is on the emotional level, it's the thinking that creates the emotion.
And so to me, I just come to conscious thinking awareness being so in those patterns we are out of sight of the body. If we're not, we need to bring our attention to what are our hunger cues? What is our body telling us, right? We need to embody the body and start to pay attention, which I've called that the body compass in my coaching, what the body is always talking to you. When we think about thinking through a functional nutrition lens. We track the messages from the body, we track what we're doing. And so we need to slow everything way down in order to understand and embrace our experiences.
We need to slow our process down so that we can pay attention. Honestly, many times I'm not paying attention if I'm hungry or not. Maybe I'm just honest, it's time to eat, I'm not I haven't slowed down enough to say, am I really hungry or am I just paying attention to the clock?
[00:15:37] Mindy Gorman: Yeah. But where I wanted to go with this, though, is that it's the disordered thinking that drives the urge for the disordered eating behaviors. But one can have a healthy relationship with food and forget to eat sometimes, because they're totally caught up in an activity that is fully nourishing.
We can sometimes overeat, have that extra piece of birthday cake after a beautiful dinner, just because we're celebrating. So I want to make that clear that just because you're skipping a meal or find yourself occasionally over eating doesn't spell out any danger towards disordered eating. So let's make that clear.
[00:16:27] Dana Frost: Yes, thank you for that distinction.
[00:16:29] Mindy Gorman: Yeah. When I'm talking about leaving our bodies, tying it into what you were just talking about, it's ignoring our innate wisdom, regarding what we're truly hungry for. It's letting food be the expression of what we're truly craving, where we're truly deficient.
Our relationship with food, Dana, is really a mirror for our relationship to life. How we treat ourselves and what we believe. So leaving our bodies really is metaphorically shutting the door that's begging to be opened, but we've got to be able and willing to listen. And sometimes the pain is so deep seated. Sometimes the fear of feeling the feelings is so intolerable, that it's easier to leave our bodies.
[00:17:22] Dana Frost: Mh-hmm. What would you say to someone who is in that position? So that is a strong expression, what would you say to someone who finds that they're listening to us and they find themselves in that situation? What would you say to them?
[00:17:39] Mindy Gorman: First thing we need to do is we need to bring love, understanding, and compassion to the table. We need to bring a pause into the equation of the behavior. We need to be able to delay. You know I talk about this exercise a lot, distract ourselves from that urge. Determine what's really going on; am I hungry? Am I angry? Am I lonely? Am I sad? Am I bored? Am I stressed? And then once we really tune in to that innate wisdom, we can then decide. Sometimes we need to turn to food and that has to be okay, because that's the best we can do at the time.
[00:18:26] Dana Frost: I love that, that's just really beautiful.
[00:18:29] Mindy Gorman: And bringing that compassion allows us to honor where we've been, where we are, and that will enable the forgiveness to go forward. Because without forgiveness there's no letting go. Without letting go there's no change, there's no transformation. Change is about what we do, transformation is about who we become.
[00:18:57] Dana Frost: That's so true and isn't midlife and beyond, that's what it is all about. I mean, that's what it can, let's say that's the possibility. Feeling Younger Growing Older, it's that possibility that we make peace with all these aspects of who we are as a person, and we transform them into the golden years.
And that really, on so many levels, has nothing to do with what we look like on the outside. It's something that really bubbles, and grows, and expands from the inside out, I have goosebumps now just saying that. We feel it viscerally other people see it on our countenance. They see it in the way that we express ourselves. They see it in the way that we interact.
[00:19:45] Mindy Gorman: As you were just speaking, I'm thinking about how we carry ourselves. How we project, how we offer ourselves to the universe and the communities we choose to participate in and serve. There's a lot of talk about a higher power. I think one's strongest sense of a higher power is their deepest sense of self. Tapping into what's already inside of us.
What was there, when we were just being seen, and heard, and nourished for the very first time? Before messages got in the way, before survival tactics got in the way. And I believe and my life experience has taught me that, that sense of self is always there waiting to be tapped into.
For me personally, I didn't realize that till I was well into my 50s. I didn't understand what it was like to tap in. I lived a life that was ruled by who I thought I was supposed to be. Living the life that was laid out for me. I'm 66 years old, I was born in the '50s. I was going to have this Ozzie and Harriet life. And I did for a while, I did.
And then I was widowed at 49, and turned back to a host of very unhealthy thoughts, beliefs, and behaviors. And it wasn't until I started digging deep and got just a glimmer, because all I was able to accept at the times was just the possibility of the glimmer. All I could be grateful for just leading at that time in my life, was the possibility of becoming grateful, so I had to hold on to that.
That's when I realized there was a part of me that I could always come home to. And that's when I was able to let go of a past that had no future, and close the book on the story that was no longer serving me. Turn the page and begin to write what became my happily ever after.
[00:22:00] Dana Frost: Thank you so much for sharing that, Mindy, that's very powerful. And can you share with us. How did you even tap into the glimmer of the hope, the possibility that maybe it was a possibility of the hope? It's just this little, we only need a seed a very small seed, and what was that for you? Do you remember how you tapped into that?
[00:22:24] Mindy Gorman: Yeah, because I was so tapped into the darkness. I share very often, that it felt as though I was in a sewer, a black hole. And the manhole cover was slightly askew, so that there was just a sliver of light coming through. And the choice was climbing up the rungs of the ladder or just treading water and stagnating, and that wasn't an option for me.
I had grown daughters. I had the possibility of grandchildren. I had the possibility of finding new love in my life. And the greatest possibility for me was falling in love with myself for the first time. Learning who to be instead of just spending the lifetime figuring out how to be, and that's what I realized.
I'll just share a funny anecdote. A few years ago, I attended a conference. And I go annually, and every Friday night during this weekend there's a costume party. And this particular year, the theme was come dressed as who you want to be when you grow up.
Well, the minute I heard that I decided I was going to go in my favorite silk blouse and a beautiful pair of trousers, and I was going exactly as me. And I walked up to the host, who was a very well-known influencer and person in the health field. And I said to her, "Here I am exactly who I am, because I have spent the last 16 years of my life figuring out how to be and I finally know who to be."
[00:24:11] Dana Frost: Oh, Mindy, that is so powerful. You must have felt, I see you in that moment as a glowing force of just light, and power, and strength, and knowing.
[00:24:26] Mindy Gorman: And that's how I feel. And I'm going to say, Dana, honestly, there are days when I don't feel great in and about this aging body, but I have acceptance and I have forgiveness. I have forgiveness for the betrayal that I hoisted upon myself. The betrayal that I hoisted upon people that loved me and supported me. And I work hard every day to put it aside and try to detach from any attachment I have to that part of my story. And that's the challenge for me, I'm going to be honest, that's the challenge. But that's my goal, and that is how I want to live out the rest of my years. And make sure that these golden years are not only golden, but they are platinum.
[00:25:19] Dana Frost: You've said, so many amazing pearls of wisdom. And I think that as you know the opportunity for all of us, every human has, can identify some area of what feels like trauma in their life, and we can all look at that. The light is there, regardless of how dim just as it was there for you, the light is always there.
So when we come to this stage, wherever we are in the life, doesn't matter. The opportunity, because I think as women, we all come to the stage and we've let go of something. We've either let go, something big shifts that may be the loss of parents, it may be a family that goes on, they leave the home because they're grown. It can be the loss of a loved one, which was your case. It can be a combination of any number of things, it could be job change. It could be what we've all experienced in 2020, which is this pandemic that drastically shifted the landscape for all of us.
So we come to the stage, and as you said, you could tread water or you could reach for the light. And I really believe that is the invitation for Feeling Younger Growing Older. It is the invitation to reach for where is the light. Go towards the light, bring the light in to our body into our life, allow ourselves to be transformed, and it all really does start with forgiveness, compassion.
I always say judgment is not allowed in the coaching relationship, there is no judgment for yourself, you've got to let that go, acceptance. And then you have these ingredients that can be transformed, if you will. Because when the recipe is acceptance, love, forgiveness, compassion, it is from that point, that actually our nervous system will relax.
Until we make it to the point because the nervous system is in fight and flight or what I say is rest and heal. And in order to be in rest and heal, which is a nervous system that is on calm mode, we need those elements of forgiveness. Forgiveness relaxes the nervous system, compassion relaxes the nervous system. The body will begin to relax and let go, we can't let go if we are constricted.
And so when we see that glimmer of light, and we agree, we make really almost a soul contract for these next years. To move towards the light, see the light, embrace the light, sprinkle it, allow forgiveness, compassion, love, to be the emotions and the attitudes that we approach ourselves. Everything relaxes and then we can begin to kind of be curious, put the pieces together, how I'm curious, what's the pattern here? What's going on? We slow down and we engage in the healing process?
[00:28:32] Mindy Gorman: Absolutely. I love that you use the word contract. I use that concept a lot with the women I'm blessed to work with. Because when we are caught up in that cycle of fear, or that flight, fright or freeze stage, in that sympathetic state. We need to realize that fear of something we create. And we become very small, our world becomes very small, a worldview becomes very small.
It's when we can let go, relax, be in that rest and heal, I love that, phase, that we can become expansive. And when we become expansive, I don't mean it has anything to do with the size of our bodies, it has to do with the size of our soul. Then we are open to receive the gifts of the universe. We're not going to receive all that is there for us, unless we are open to receiving it, otherwise we're shut down.
[00:29:38] Dana Frost: You know, Mindy, I think that this is really when you say receive, this is another big concept I think for the next phase, this midlife and beyond. It's this idea of receive and it can be when we think about the healing process we're giving to ourselves. We're receiving what we are willing to give to ourselves. We're receiving what the universe has to give to us. We have to be open, if we are constricted, the energy doesn't allow us to receive. And so if we can melt everything down we can receive and give to ourselves, and we can receive what others have to give to us.
This is one of the beautiful gifts that I've received from our community is the gift of these practitioners coming together. And that's not unique to me, it's the openness and being open as a person. Being open to receive what others are willing and longing to give to us.
[00:30:40] Mindy Gorman: And vulnerable, and trusting, and being able to own up to the fact that we don't know everything we're still learning. And dropping the judgment, dropping the negative self-talk, learning to talk to ourselves as though we are our most significant other.
[00:30:59] Dana Frost: That's really beautiful. Yeah, we are our own significant other.
[00:31:03] Mindy Gorman: And if I could tie that back to eating disorders, disordered eating. The question becomes, what would I be feeling? What would I be thinking about, if I wasn't thinking about or behaving with food as I am?
[00:31:19] Dana Frost: Can you say that again? Just to highlight it,
[00:31:22] Mindy Gorman: Sure, what would I be thinking? What would I be feeling? If I wasn't thinking about or behaving with food as I am?
[00:31:32] Dana Frost: Well, that's a beautiful note to end on Mindy. Because patterns take up space in our life, and when we can unwind and release, shift, reframe the pattern, then we have space for something else. Then suddenly, the things that we really desire, as you spoke about what do you really want, our life becomes open for the things we really desire.
[00:32:00] Mindy Gorman: So aging can be another rite of passage, it can be a milestone at which we honor ourselves. In ancient societies, the older women led society, led the societies of the wives, they were revered.
[00:32:21] Dana Frost: I just had a spark, an idea, a download, about rituals. Why don't we create and have a retreat that is a ritual for aging, for whatever midlife, Feeling Younger Growing Older. And it's a mark in time where you say, "This is the moment when I'm going to honor myself." I love that. That's really beautiful Mindy. Mindy, I have one question that I ask all my guests at the end, and it is, what does feeling younger growing older mean to you, Mindy?
[00:32:56] Mindy Gorman: I thought about that before we started today. And I know I've mentioned it before, but for me, it's about acceptance, compassion, and forgiveness. It's about feeling whole, it's about bringing my best self to the table.
[00:33:13] Dana Frost: That's really beautiful Mindy. You know that I have so much admiration for your wisdom, for who you are as a practitioner, for you as a friend, and I want to thank you for being here, and tell our listeners where they can find you, Mindy. I mean, you have an amazing Instagram presence, so what is your handle on Instagram,
[00:33:36] Mindy Gorman: On Instagram, it is @thefreedompromise. My website is the freedompromise.com. There are lots of free resources there that really go into depth about my signature framework, about stopping the fear of what food will do to you so you can embrace what it can do for you. And I'm just very happy to chat, and respond, and support our community, and those that want to participate any way that I can.
[00:34:10] Dana Frost: Well, Mindy, as always streaming love from my heart to yours.
[00:34:14] Mindy Gorman: Dana, thank you. I want to say goodbye to you and your audience, and I'm just so grateful for the opportunity to be here with you. And I'm just so proud to call you friend and trusted colleague,
[00:34:27] Dana Frost: Mindy, thank you so much. And thank you everybody for listening today. We look forward to hearing from you during our next episode, thank you.
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[00:34:40] Dana Frost: Thank you for joining me on the Vitally You® Podcast. If you like it, please spread the love with a review and share it with your friends. As a thank you for the first three months of my podcast, one reviewer each month will be selected to win a sleeve of LifeWave X39 stem cell activation patches.
LifeWave's X39 patch is the only product on the market that resets the body's own stem cells, so they behave like younger, healthier cells without injections, chemicals or pharmaceuticals. Experience the power of the patch on your journey of Feeling Younger While Growing Older. To be entered to win, leave a review, screenshot your review and send it to Dana at danafrost.com or pop it into a direct message on Instagram @Danafrostvitallyfree. Don't miss a Vitally You® episode drop. Sign up for my newsletter on my website or Instagram, Linktr. Until next time streaming love from my heart to yours.
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